For Sale Robin Avalon GoldtopAlmost New

[Vincent Craig]

Hello All:

I am interested in selling my Avalon Goldtop. I ordered it in April 04 from BCR Greg, and although I like it, there is another guitar I must have. It is in almost perfect shape, except for a very small nick on the headstock. Can't see it unless your eyes are 6 inches away. It is a chambered mahogany body, rock maple top, natural binding, and a tone pro's bridge installed by BCR Greg himself. I also have the stock bridge. Stock Rio Grande pu's, and original hard shell case. This guitar is a player. I'm in this guitar $1800.00, and I'd like to get at least $1300.00. Please call Vince at (408) 307-8715 or e-mail guitarvc@yahoo.com. Cheers! http://robinlovers.com/discus/messages/7/1417.jpghttp://robinlovers.com/discus/messages/7/1418.jpg

[Robert Miller]

Beautiful guitar. I will offer $600.00. I can pay today!

[Vincent Craig]

Not even close. At that price I'll just keep it. You would pay at least 1300 for a Les Paul, which would be a mediocre guitar at best. This is a supreme musical instrument.

[Kizanski]

You mean, you didn't jump all over that $600 offer?!?

Shocker!!

[Vincent Craig]

It's gotta be a joke. Nobody who appreciates Robin guitars would seriously make an offer like that. I'm quite suprised that no one has made a decent offer yet. The only reason I'm selling is that I have small hands (used to play Les Pauls with 60's slim taper neck) and Andersons fit better. This guitar is a real screamer...with gobs of sustain. Sounds great with both vintage and high gain amps...it'd just hard to play for me. If no one makes me a decent offer...I'll just keep it and buy the M-Series Cobra that I need for gigging as a backup to my Hollow T. Since finding Andersons' I have been a 1 guitar all night kind of guy, but with no backup. I could still use the Robin for recording cause it kills all of past Les Pauls in the tone dept.

[Kizanski]

Joke or not, a $600 offer for that guitar is an insult.
Greg called me when that guitar came in to rave about it, so I'm sure it's a screamer.
If I may, I would suggest snapping a few more pictures of the guitar; making sure to display some of the guitar's features, such as the faux binding and the neck joint.
These are the things that sell used guitars - particularly on ebaY.
If I can help you in any way, feel free to email me and we can work on a better ad for the guitar together.
Good Luck!

[Burnsy]

"Beautiful guitar. I will offer $600.00. I can pay today!"

Bill Councill - is that you?

[Vincent Craig]

And This site is called "Robin Lovers Forum". Jeez! At least I have one real offer. We are settling on the exact number hopefully tonight.

[Bill Councill]

Burnsy - I was unpleasantly surprised to see my name mentioned in this discussion. What an insensitive and ignorant hack you are. In a previous and completed discussion, I argued that I would like to see the value of Robin guitars increase. I was the only one to take Jack Kennedy's sale of his Robin Avalon Sport seriously. I bought it for his stated price and I didn't grumble about the headstock or color. I recognized and declared that the non-Robin cognizant public placed little value on Robin guitars. You didn't want to give my arguments any value. Well, here's proof through no doing of mine. I am a Robin Lover and if I wanted this particular Robin, I would have made an appropriate offer to ensure that my bid would be accepted. To bring my name into this discussion is mean-spirited, crude, and the work of a small mind. I'm fed up with the participants of this discussion board and have no intent to make any additional contributions, although Dave Wintz encouraged me to continue, unless I am serious about purchasing my 15th Robin guitar on this forum.

I am so ill that my doctor's don't believe I will live another six months. I buy Robins so that I might make a bequest to a local Discovery Center to demonstrate that changes in technology create concurrent changes in the style and genre of rock music.

Your comments cause me to feel that I can't participate in this forum for my own health. Burnsy, you may take pride because of your witty, snide, and seemingly funny remarks. I certainly hope none of your colleagues will. I doubt they would want to appear so crass.

Bill

[DCWalters]

I think I can speak for all in saying we were just teasing you. I really don't think anyone had any ill intentions...it was all in good fun.

[Burnsy]

Bill - I meant no ill will, and I'm sorry I upset you. I was really just goofing around, and meant nothing personal by it. You explained yourself in the last thread.

We can take this off line if you'd like, and you can email me at mburns@ivserver.com.

Please accept my apology.

[Bill Councill]

What idiots. You may take it as fun. I don't. I'm wondering why the majority of folks who participate on this forum, Robin dealers, don't make an offer for the guitar. You, as dealers know why. You can't make an offer much greater than $600.00 for a used Robin either. Robin guitars as I discussed before are relatively unknown and have a tendency to sit on dealers' walls for long periods. If the guitar is so worthy of a greater value, why haven't one of you dealers jump[ed] all over that $600 offer?!?
Why don't you tell the owner why you praise his guitar out of one side of your mouths and debate behind the scenes how much the guitar would actually bring if placed in your inventories? The answer unfortunately is not much more than $600.00. That was my concern I had hoped to see this group attempt to resolve a few weeks ago. My contentions are a little too close to home now.

I reiterate: It was exceptionally rude to bring my name into this discussion. It was mean-spirited. I don't know Burnsy and don't care to. His remarks might have been in fun if we had some form of business relationship or friendship. He trashed me before; he did so again.

Darren Walters - How do you know Burnsy's intentions? I disdain your attempt to wipe Burnsy's mean-spirited remarks under the table. To try to protect him is to join him. Some of you have to learn to live in the real world where Robin guitars don't retain the value you lead your buyers to believe and where discussants are real folks, not just objects, who have feelings and don't need for the Burns's of the world to trash them in subsequent discussions.

Having fun. Yes, at my expense.

Dave Wintz - I hate to say this; but because of the company you keep, I will no longer buy another Robin guitar, and I will sell my 14 Robins for the embarrassing value they will return. To place them among children who might later in life decide to buy a Robin from this bunch is anathema to me. It would be a disservice to the children.

I wonder what a $3,500.00 Robin Avalon Dolphin Classic that was resold to me less than a year later on this forum with no discussion about the extreme loss that buyer experienced will bring when sold again. Maybe $600.00, Burnsy!?!

[Robert Miller]

Wake up men! It’s no insult. It’s a serious offer. Check the advertiser index in Guitar One, Guitar World, and Guitar Player….etc. Do you see the word Robin anywhere?

This is a wonderful guitar but the brand is unknown to the general consumer. If this guitar has been sold then it is used. The serial number most likely says it was made in 2004. That makes it over one year old. I don’t care if you owned it for one day, just like a car it sells as an over one year old guitar.

Take it to Guitar Center and sell it to them. They will give you .25 cents on the dollar for what they think they can sell it for. i.e sell for 1300.00 buy it for 325.00. The dealer that sold it to you paid around 800.00 for the guitar. They won’t buy it back for more than 600.00. It is now used.

Kizanski, you just bought two Robins for around 700.00 each. Was that a joke?

“Work on a better ad”, why not offer more then my 600.00.

Big money was made on the initial sale, resale is a buyers market. Robin guitars are much better then Gibson but if I buy a Gibson for 1100.00, I can sell it for 800.00 for the next four years. Anyway, I will up my offer to 650.00 because I really do love Robins.

[DCWalters]

Robert, that is an insult! Using your logic and formula a McNaught guitar on the used market should bring roughly $1,000.00 but if you look around they bring 3 times that amount! When was the last time you saw a McNaught listed in any guitar magazines? For that matter when was the last time you walked into your local Guitar Center and saw a Robin? GC and Sam Ash carry cookie cutter guitars, if you are happy with cookie cutters then buy those, if you want handmade quality guitars pony up the dough (new or used)!

BTW I bought the Avalon from Vince today, I feel I got a good deal on a great guitar.

[Robert Miller]

Tell us what you realy paid for the guitar?

[Burnsy]

I think he paid somewhere around "none of your damn business". Robert - you're either a troll, or you haven't a clue. I haven't decided which one it is yet.

Congrats, Darren. I've been eyeing that guitar for a while. It's a beaut. Just ask Smitty what a nice goldtop does to me.

[Smitty]

Put my bid down for $800 and I need it less than just about anyone on this board.

Smitty

[DCWalters]

I need to add the following as well, if a guitar was made in June of '04 it is not over a year old. As far as general consumers are concerned, if you are here on this forum you are not a general consumer you are a looking for something specific!

Let me tell you something about "general consumers" they are just sheep to the media market, most of these buyers are younger kids and they buy whatever their heros play...but they do not understand that the guitars their heros play are for the most part total custom hand made guitars much like the quality of a Robin and not like an off the shelf guitar. You are just trying to get a steal on a guitar and I don't blame you, but you are going about it all wrong!

[Smitty]

Ah, never mind...now I see Darren bought it. Good deal.

NEXT!

Smitty

[DCWalters]

What I paid for it is between me and Vince. I will say, however, it was over $1,000.00 Better than that weak $650.00 offer!!!

[Ken Smith]

This is just getting too heavy for me. There is no question that the guitar is not worth $1300. Anyone knows that. I was thinking around $750.

Didn't we all just get all lathered up over these sorts of discussions? Isn't this confirmation of the facts that Bill Councill and I tried to address in an intelligent manner? Damn, I really do not know what is going on here, but I for one don't like. Stuff like this has the real potential for changing me from "Robin Lover" to just a "Robin Player".

I agree with the comments about the McNaughts. You never see them in print. And they do keep their resale value. Why? I think we all know. I feel we already beat that horse dead. But it all boils down to brand equity. Just like Bill Council and Jim Lee said.

I find it a bit strange that all you guys, who are mostly dealers anyhow, are shying away from the intelligent discussion of this issue. It is a real issue. We all have a vested interest in having our Robins hold resale value. Is everyone posting an ostrich, or is this board just a "good ole boy" network?

Anyhow, I in no way mean to offend anyone. Nor am I attempting to point fingers. I just find it strange that nobody wants to address an issue that so obviously needs discussion. I will not chime in anymore on this because I doubt it will get me anywhere. Maybe it is just my business mind grinding overtime and I ought to do as BCR Greg says and stop analyzing and play more. I guess it just ain't that easy for those of us who like to understand the business issues at hand regarding our investments.

On that note, let's all be nicer. I really hate seeing attacks on individuals and the like.

[Kizanski]

"Kizanski, you just bought two Robins for around 700.00 each. Was that a joke? 'Work on a better ad', why not offer more then my 600.00."

Miller, the guitars that I bought from Ron Wood list out at about half of what the guitar in this thread does, so what's your point? Are you actually comparing a bolt on Wrangler/Ranger to a set neck Avalon as apples to apples? Get real.

We just had a lengthy thread here regarding Robins and their resale value, so I'm not about to re-educate you as well. Read the Avalon Sport Prototype thread. We are all aware that these guitars do not command Gibson-type resale value, but that does not mean that Vincent is stupid and is looking to give his guitar away.

Yes, $600 is an insulting offer for that guitar. Why didn't I offer him more? Because I didn't want it. I assure you, if I wanted it I would have bought it. I had many opportunities to buy it, but I offered to help him create a better ad for the guitar instead. Perhaps I should have tried to steal it from him like you?
There is nothing more pathetic that a cheap lowballer that gets pissed when a seller doesn't kiss his ass for making him such a low offer. Too bad Vincent wasn't stupid enough to accept your offer. I guess you'll have to look for another sucker.

And then there's Mr. Councill...
Bill, to say that your posts are confusing and contradictory would be an understatement.
Firstly, Burnsey made a crack that you took offense to, so he apologized. Not only didn't you accept his apology, but you continued to lay into him. You can't have it both ways. If someone apologizes, be a man and accept it.
How are your threats that you "will no longer buy another Robin guitar" supposed to impress anyone?
If you only have six months to live, how many more new Robins would you expect to buy anyway? I mean after all, there is an 8 or 10 week turnaround. You'd have to get your order in really soon.

Please, give me a frigging break. Save the drama for your Momma.

[Robert Miller]

You guys are the biggest bunch of dickheads I have ever seen on any forum. Kiss my ass!!! Keep your trashy guitars. Please cancel my membership in this forum!!!!! I have much better things to do with my time!!

[Smitty]

"Please cancel my membership in this forum!!!!!"

Not a problem.

Smitty

[Kizanski]

Smitty,
Did you send him his refund check?

[Bill Councill]

Kisansky - I was writing my post at the same time that Burnsy was writing his. I was unaware of his apology. Can you conceive that? Is that sufficiently clear to you? Would I accept an apology from someone who used my name in an unacceptable manner, in the same mean-spirited way in which he insulted me in the previous discussion? Would you? This forum has a "good ole boy" atmosphere. Anyone who takes a position in disagreement with the general consensus is trashed. Clear enough? It appears that this group cannot accept others' opinions. That's okay. The manner in which you treat those folks whose opinions are contrary to yours is demeaning, often mean-spirited and crude, and unfortunately, recurrent. When I say recurrent kisanski, I mean the ill-tempered behavior extends into other discussions as it did today, that is, Burnsy's unwarranted post. Just face it, my name should never have been brought up.

On another front, your opinions should not invade the privacy of participant's personal lives. I don't like the tenor of this forum; knowing that, none of the discussants should write me at my personal e-mail address. Writing a discussant outside the discussion forum is generally not tolerated by any forum, but, this forum is unlike any other I have ever participated in. And, Kisansky, I'll give you a break. Walk in my shoes for a day. Perhaps you and Burnsy wouldn't feel like trashing me, or folks in my position, for any reason whatsoever. Bye.

[Ken Smith]

Kizanski,
Dude, that was low. Your tastelessness is showing. I have rarely seen such intentional hurtfulness in print. Speaking of Mommas I bet yours is proud right about now. This has gotten too much for me. Ya'll have your good ole' boy fun by yourselves. That post just turned my stomach.

[Jan T]

Can´t you please take this personal flaming thing off the forum and let the man sell his guitar!

[DCWalters]

I got nothing...for once I am speechless.

[Kizanski]

Councill, are you still here?
You're not ordering any new Robins; you're selling all of your old ones; so what purpose would the Robinlovers Forum serve you?
Sell all of your Robins (and don't forget the crappy resale value that they have so we can all get a good deal) and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
I for one would welcome you back, however, on the outside chance that you get back on your meds.
Oh, and it's k-i-z-a-n-s-k-i.
Don't know how to spell it? Maybe you oughta ask somebody.

Ken I met you at the Reunion, and I thought you were a pretty cool guy, but I am always open to re-evaluating a first impression. But since you asked, my Mom was always proud of me - thanks for your concern. She certainly didn't raise any dummies, that's for sure.
Did yours? Or did you buy into all of Councill's BS?
Tasteless? Maybe so. Almost as tasteless as getting a free guitar and then proclaiming that you are changing "from 'Robin Lover' to just a 'Robin Player'. I'm sure the folks at Robin will appreciate that slap in the face.

[Smitty]

SOMEBODY BRING ME A FIRE HOSE!!!

Just looked out the window and saw the Full Moon. I get it now...

Smitty

[Ken Jones]

Maybe I should stay out of this, but...


One thing I've always disliked about the written word (emails, letters, message boards, etc.) is that it's much too easy to take things out of context. With that in mind, if I have something important to say to someone I do it in person. I don't even like to use the telephone because I don't consider myself to be a very accomplished verbal communicator.

Sometimes it is difficult to read something and realize that the writer is having a little fun - maybe at someone's expense, maybe not. But if you were in the writer's presence and they verbally said these exact same things to you, you would probably see a little twinkle in their eye and you would know that they were just "messing" with you.

That being said, there's only a couple of people on this board that I feel comfortable kidding around with via the internet. It's not a coincidence that I have met these people in person - and I met them because I frequent this and other guitar related forums. I'm confident they know I'm having a little fun with them.

On boards such as these, "cyberballs" run rampant. People jump to conclusions and end up writing things that they would never say to your face. Situations ESCALATE quickly.

So folks - please, let's all just SLOW DOWN and learn to have a little bit thicker skin. And darn it (here's the twinkle in my eye), why can't we all just get along?!!!

[Ken Smith]

I am eminently grateful to Dave and Alan, and all else who graced me with what is now my main axe. And I certainly have very fond memories of that night in October. I also remember meeting you and seeing some coolness in you as well. I was not trying to belittle that at all, and certainly do not love my Robins any less. The guitar is perfect for me in every way and every day I appreciate it. I hope my comment was not construed as a slap to Robin. It was not intended that way... it was more of a metaphor for how disturbing all this has become to me. You gotta admit, all this strife does dilute the message of the moniker "Robin Lover" a bit. At least it does to me.

And yes, I shouldn't have brought your mother into it. That was the same behavior I was ciriticizing. So, my bad. I just had this viceral response to your closing paragraph.

As far as my being tasteless, maybe so. I have fouled that up before! But for the record, I am the guy who suggested 5 discrete, tangible things we can do to abate some of this resale value issue (which I still think is relevant). As I see it, I am the only one in this long series of threads that offered any practical ideas.

Anyhow, I do love my Robins, and will continue to. Anyone who knows me knows I am much more than a "Robin Player". Hell, I own nothing but Rio Grande and Robin T shirts! And I have strongly influenced at least three of my guitar buddies to buy NEW Ranger Pros since I won mine in October. Regardless of what one might read into my "Robin Player" comment, I have comfort in what my real meaning was.

Dang, can't we just stop calling each other names? I really want to let it rest now. But I had to chime in regarding the free Robin.

I sincerely hope that this post does not fan the flames any higher.

[Smitty]

"Okay folks, you can go on home now, nothing to see here..."

Smitty

[DCWalters]

Mr Miller-

Calling us dickheads is like calling the pot calling the kettle black! If you don't like it too bad, I paid what I thought was fair for the guitar and was happy to do so. If you want a cheap LP style guitar; I suggest you look for an Epiphone or something like that.

BTW I am not a dickhead, asshole sure, but not a dickhead. What's your excuse?!?

[Kizanski]

Darren, you got a screaming guitar at a great price. Don't let anyone tell you different.
Anyway, I've been called worse names by better people than Miller.
Screw him with a Texas long horn! HAHahahaha....

[DCWalters]

Ha!

[BCRGreg]

FOR PETE'S SAKE!!!

I go to NAMM and come back to this shit.

Councill, grow some hair on your balls. I am sorry to hear that you are sick, nobody wishes that on anyone. That being so, you have to get OVER your superior attitude. Accept that each person has their own opinion, and nobody has to share yours.

Miller, don't let the door hit you on the ass.

Kiz, you are a moron. I love you, though.

Ken Smith, I don't understand your position, but that guitar is CLEARLY worth more than your effort. I had it made specially for Vince, with a rock maple cap over a chambered mahogany body instead of the typical ash. They even did the scraped binding on it. Not a cheap guitar. Vince likes Strat style guitars, so he didn't put any real wear on it. $750? I think that's a bit low. MY opinion, you are free to disagree.

Burnsy, gimme 20 pushups. With a grin.

Walters, I want to see clear pics of tons of wear on that guitar in no time.

Vince, time for a Ranger Slabtop Supreme.

[DCWalters]

Greg-
I will play the shit out of it! I'll make ya proud!

[Kevin M. Cramer]

I'm just the FNG around here but I've got to say this. Whatever was paid for that goldtop, (If I had it.) I would have paid more. Not because of some bullshot idea of resale value. I agree, that is important. (After all I work for BCR Greg). I would have paid more because it's a work of art. Some people think these things are just a tool. Which is ok by me, but I see it differently. If we are talking brand new Gibson LP, then sure it's a wrench. Not a robin. Somebodies blood, sweat, and tears went into that guitar. Probably a few peoples. (Some of it my boss' I am sure. Not kissing up, I just know the ludacrisly long hours he puts into emails and phone calls to get guitars like that built for Gents like you all. Myself included.) I know that somebody went home and told thier wife, thier neighbour, thier son or daughter about that "beautiful Goldtop" they were working on today. Somebody drove to work thinking about just how to mix and spray the finish, scrape that binding, or wind that pickup (Pilar) just to fit that guitar. That's why I would have paid more. It's for the Love of the instrument. March on over to Gibson's factory and ask some one if they feel that way about a guitar they worked on. I doubt that they could even tell one from another. That's not true of Robin. After all that is why we are all here isn't it?

As far as a financial "investment" goes. I can appreciate your concern and I realize that I am a bit idealistic in this, but if you want to make a financial investment, call your broker. If you want to make great music with an amazing instrument, call Robin.

Just my thoughts. Take em' or leave em'...

P.S. As to the buyer of this particular guitar, congrats! I am jealous. I've been day dreaming about one just like that for longer than I can tell you! Have fun brother. Peace....

[Steve Clay]

Well, it is kind of cool to see that the Robin Lovers Forum has passed through its adolescence. (easy guys, I'm talking about the FORUM).

A thread starts out about a gorgeous goldtop for sale (I saw it when it was delivered to BCR - WOW!), that gets hijacked into a flamefest worthy of much older boards, then cooler heads prevail and everyone (well, almost everyone) is back to talking about the Robins we all love. And, the goldtop has a new home! All in under 3 days. Yeah!

Darren - you ended up with a great guitar - congratulations!

Vincent - I hope you end up with a guitar you are more comfortable with. I once had a Savoy with a much thinner neck - maybe there's still another Robin in your future, eh?

Kiz - thanks for the heads-up. I'm finished with my coffee now...

[Paul]

This Forum has a bit of The Jerry Springer Show in it. Entertaining to some, informative in its own way and as always the combative side comes out. All I have to say is I hope Cramer is right. Get to work Greg, my son needs that Savoy Dolphin Classic. http://robinlovers.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Vincent Craig]

Hey Steve:

It funny you mention the Savoy. I played one today with a thinner neck...it was awesome.

Is this normal for the Savoy?

[Vincent Craig]

Hey Steve:

It funny you mention the Savoy. I played one today with a thinner neck...it was awesome.

Is this normal for the Savoy?

[Jack Kennedy]

Hi Everyone ,
As it seems again , a few days pass by when I do not have axcess too a computer and I encounter a discussion that I was not aware of going on.
I am going too make a common mistake and admit it too you all before I make it. The mistake is getting involved in a heated discussion too try too help when often times the anger , frustration , sadness can be redirected at you even with all your good intent of helping smooth things out.
I am reminded of a true story that happened during World War II . During the war , Christmas Day had arrived and some german soldiers had the luck of having a dinner at a local farmhouse in the countryside . There was a knock at the door , it was some american soldiers looking for some food. The owner of the home said they could come in if weapons were left outside . Everyone sat down and had dinner without any problems. This is a true story , it really happened.
Another story involves " The Last Supper " with 12 men and a savior named Christ. All of them sat , and ate Bread, Drank wine. All of them had some considerable Differences .
I am not perfect , I am not a Theologian , but perhaps there is something in these storys for us all ( Myself included ). I beleive that all of us truly want the best for Robin guitars and our companionship on this forum :-)
Thankyou,
Jack Kennedy
Blue Lightning

[Steve Clay]

Vincent,

I don't know if that's normal for the Savoy. I've only ever played 2 of them, and neither one struck me as having a particularly fat neck. Maybe they make the necks thinner to appeal more to the guys who have been playing semi-hollowbodies for awhile... (Not many fat-neck 335's around, you know?). But that's just my guess.

[DCWalters]

hehehe, the gold top arrived today! So far it feels and sounds great, I am having some trouble playing though...my hands keep shakin'!

It is totally different animal than the Medleys I've had, but I don't think I will have any problems getting use to it.